Curse

Fireblaster · May 29, 2009, 09:10 AM // 09:10

You don't need to put any attribute points in water for deep freeze and maelstorm. And I would say that deep freeze is only effective, if you got lots of AoE-damage.

Jeydra · May 29, 2009, 12:50 PM // 12:50

I just had to quote this, since ares296 did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

No. Nonono. Nonononononono. NO!
A 120 damage spell might look good on paper but it usually has a casting time and a cooldown. On average, you can rarely ever cast more then a spell every 3 seconds. Which cuts down the nice looking 120 damage into 40 DPS which is average at best.

Elementalists produce nice shiny numbers in NM, yes. But they lack in DPS, both in HM and in NM. The fact that they are sought in NM as damage dealers actually doesn't speak for GW players. Obviously, the majority is fooled by shiny numbers and DD stereotypes and not able to think about DPS themselves.

And what are you doing during the 3 seconds downtime, typing /sit?! What's more, are you that terrible that you cannot aim that 120 damage Rodgort's Invocation to hit more than one target?!

It is soooooooooo easy to have a build that casts more than once every 3s on average. Searing Flames is an easy example. Even 2s spells leave you casting more than once every 3s - the aftercast is 0.75s, for a total of 2.75s cast time and crucially, you have 40/40 sets for an average cast of much less than 2.75s. And you have AoE. Hit 3 people with one Searing Flames and you're looking at some 120 damage * 3 = 360 damage every 1.5s or so, or over 200 DPS, which is excellent.

The fact that Elementalists deal great DPS in NM is often denied by GWG'ers, because they have been indoctrined to think that Elementalists cannot deal DPS at all. Don't be fooled. Elementalist damage in NM is impressive, not so much in HM, but as I've written before in this thread: if anyone can 2-man Dragon's Throat NM and top 400 kills without using a Fire Ele, I'd be impressed. The most effective builds I know there involve 4. That's Elementalist NM DPS.

*******

Rant aside, Moloch and Improvavel, I've been taking a closer look at that build I posted before - which is the standard build I use with Discordway by the way - vs. what a Mesmer or Necro would do. I don't have either Mesmer or Necro, so I can only guess at what they would achieve. But I see definite advantages of going Elementalist primary. I was in Sanctum Cay earlier today, and there were plenty of times the target died before the minions even got close. I also see definite disadvantages. There were quite a few times I randomly launched Lightning Orbs while waiting for someone to drop to spikable health - Barbs, Mark of Pain and Cry of Pain would all have been more useful.

I also saw the Vanguard Assassin not attack the called target even though he had a condition

Still, with the way I use the build, I usually don't need a particular foe to die, so I usually don't need the Assassin to attack the called target either. I just need him to get out there, deal damage, tank damage and then trigger Soul Reaping lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by traversc

I don't have an elementalist for PvE, but it seems to me that a water ele would be the best for HM, for general support.

Deep freeze + maelstrom has always been a deadly combination and that can be combined with AP too.

In HM, you'll be pretty lucky if you hit 3 foes at a time, they move out of it (increased movespeed too) and their spells cast faster. I don't think it's worth it; when I did use Deep Freeze + Maelstrom I usually felt rather useless.

AtomicMew · May 29, 2009, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

In HM, you'll be pretty lucky if you hit 3 foes at a time, they move out of it (increased movespeed too) and their spells cast faster. I don't think it's worth it; when I did use Deep Freeze + Maelstrom I usually felt rather useless.

How do they move out of it when they're -90% speed?

Sounds like a problem of the foes not being clumped up enough, rather than scatter.

Jeydra · May 29, 2009, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Deep Freeze = 66% snare not 90% (that would be Mind Freeze).

_Nihilist_ · May 30, 2009, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Still, a -66% MS penalty should be more than enough to keep them in Maelstrom.

Ensign · May 30, 2009, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Necromancer AP bars are way better than Elementalist AP bars; I don't know how you can even debate this.

Midnight Harmony · Jun 03, 2009, 05:14 PM // 17:14

For HM I prefer Unsteady Ground, Churning Earth, Eruption, Ward Against Melee, Ward Against Elements, Glyph Of Lesser Energy, Mindbender and Earth Attunement.

Snorph · Jun 05, 2009, 11:28 PM // 23:28

I am looking to doing H/M now. I have had an ele for about 2 years and always played fire. I am wanting to try other stuff. Now I know and hear that ele's arnt that strong in H/M but I am will to take my H/H with me.

Shall I stick with fire or go for something like water, air, earth ?

syphonus · Jun 06, 2009, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Roll with infuse spam if you're l33t.

this thread
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10353242

Kalendraf · Jun 09, 2009, 09:08 PM // 21:08

My primary character is an ele, and I haven't had any major issues with HM. However, do be prepared to change up builds somewhat. Stuff that worked in NM may not work in HM, but on the other hand, some skills that didn't seem all that necessary in NM tend to shine in HM.

Depending on the specific area and team, any element can work. If I'm mostly H/H'ing, I tend to find that using a water build with Sabway necros works quite well, especially for vanquishing most areas. The slowing effect from a water hex (like Deep Freeze) is extremely useful in HM, far more than it tends to be in NM. Minions can take advantage of slowed enemies, and they tend to create a much better front line as a result. The slowing also keeps enemies bunched up longer, allowing many other AoE skills to have a better impact. In addition, the water hexes can also help serve as cover hexes to ensure that a necro hex like SS stays in place.

In HM, I will use fire when adventuring with a paragon who can easily exploit the burning for "They're on Fire!". Meanwhile, for some locations either Air or Earth can work well in HM. Generally, it's less important for an ele to focus on damage in HM, but rather to focus on the conditions or other affects you can bring to the table that will synergize well with your team and help for the given task. For example:

Air: Blindness, Cracked Armor, Weakness, KDs
Earth: Blindness, KDs, Weakness, Wards
Fire: Burning, KDs
Water: Blindness, Blurred Vision, Interrupts, KDs, Slow Hexes, Ward

These effects combined with the huge AoE range of many ele skills allow elementalists to still be very effective in HM.

Rolain · Jun 21, 2009, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fireblaster

You don't need to put any attribute points in water for deep freeze and maelstorm. And I would say that deep freeze is only effective, if you got lots of AoE-damage.

And that's 50 energy right there.

Axel Zinfandel · Jun 21, 2009, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolain

And that's 50 energy right there.

Which isn't a problem unless you are doing it wrong.

UnChosen · Jun 22, 2009, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolain

And that's 50 energy right there.

Not to mention maelstrom really doesn't "shutdown" the monsters by interrupting them, the moment maelstrom hits the monster starts fleeing, so its the scatter that stops them, so I can achieve the same thing with deep freeze + any fire aoe.

Keira Nightgale · Jun 23, 2009, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Necromancer AP bars are way better than Elementalist AP bars; I don't know how you can even debate this.

MoP + Barbs nuker?

frozzie · Jun 25, 2009, 04:25 PM // 16:25

I know this might not be the best, but could you still make good use out of searing flames in hard mode with cracked armor (weaken armor - necromancer secondary or hero) and stone striker (convert fire damage into earth damage) ?

Xenomortis · Jun 25, 2009, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Why would stone striker be worthwhile?
SF + Cracked Armor + Ebon ward of Honor gives reasonable damage and synergises with They're on Fire, but it's still a bit meh.

frozzie · Jun 25, 2009, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Oh i thought monsters in hard mode had more armor against fire then earth

**Marty Silverblade** · Jun 26, 2009, 06:21 AM // 06:21

No, it's just elemental damage in general. Also, Stone Striker only affects damage you take, not what you deal.

frozzie · Jun 26, 2009, 06:47 AM // 06:47

From Guild Wars Wiki

Stone Striker
Enchantment Spell. For 5...25...30 seconds, whenever you take or deal elemental or physical damage, that damage is converted to earth damage.

but yeah ebon standard must be better then thx for the info =D

Desert Rose · Jun 26, 2009, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

No, it's just elemental damage in general. Also, Stone Striker only affects damage you take, not what you deal.

Unless they fixed it since the last time i tested it, it changes all damage (even physical, holy, chaos) from auto attacks to earth damage, but does neither change damage from skills you take or any damage you deal.